from Lawrence, SUNDAY PhiloMadrid meeting at 6:30pm: Do things change if we change?

Dear Friends,

This Sunday we are discussing: Do things change if we change?

We also have an essay by Lola on the subject, and although I haven't
prepared an essay myself I wish to say the following on the topic.

If we change our point of view on some state of affairs, we tend to see
that situation as we say, in new light. If a politician lies to us and
we discover that they lied to us, then we have changed, buy knowing the
truth, and the politician has changed from our view by virtue of our new
knowledge. But is this virtue a causal virtue? The politician lied
before we knew the truth so by discovering that they lied nothing has
changed in the person themselves.

So, yes, at a certain level, things do change, by what has changed in
our perception of this thing. Hence the change in us is a change in the
information we have and/or our interpretation of the information we
already have about the thing. In effect it enough that we change for
things to change, it is not necessary that our change causes any
physical change in the thing itself.


Essay by Lola:
"Do things change if we change?"

This title may seem obvious, although not so much so.
In my opinion it all depends on the quality of change that is reflected
in our everyday life.

Let´s think a change comes to encourage our pattern of life in fields
like new work, partners, children, unexpected change of home, not just a
dreadful psychological change due to loss of money, someone we loved who
passed away; some cherished broken relationship, that shakes the whole
structure of our life.

In this case two possible things are possible: Either we try to keep the
boat ashore, and renew ourselves from the ashes, or try to overcome our
sorrow by looking back to the previous restored situation.

In any personal change there is possibly damage and gain.

We may be in the middle of a crisis and put ourselves under the umbrella
waiting for it to pass over. However, if we fight it out definitively
and strongly determine a course of action, something will come up from
this situation.

Whether psychological change is encountered just by need of growing up
better in terms of improvement of behaviour, and consequently on the
context of our own life, when we are not mature enough and lack some
strong personality and we need to improve in terms of resilience,
decision, need to strengthen vital horizons, we might need a
psychological advisor.

Finally, after this scarce view of how to cope with this kind of
entangled situation. Trying to be better in both psychological state and
to revert back into real life, and consequently obtain an improvement in
ourselves and living resources or at the very least a fine foreseeable
future, we need, primarily, to be touched by the will of the gods, as
ancient peoples believed, that we nowadays call : LUCK.

Man and woman provide this thrill to change, where does it come from?
One must be careful about a compelling desire for big changes.  As the
old saying says "man proposes, god disposes".

Limitation is always there. We must count on it in order not to lose
ourselves and the whole prospect of our life.

However the sky is the limit when the moment comes to a big change.

Lola, September 25, 2018.
------


Best Lawrence

tel: 606081813

philomadrid@gmail.com

Blog: http://philomadrid.blogspot.com.es/

MeetUp https://www.meetup.com/PhiloMadrid-philosophy-group/

Gran Clavel (Café-Bar): Gran vía 11, esquina C/ Clavel, 28013—Madrid

from Lawrence, SUNDAY PhiloMadrid meeting at 6:30pm: Do things change if
we change?

from Lawrence, Sunday PhiloMadrid meeting: Do things change if we change? + news

Dear friends,

This Sunday we are discussing: Do things change if we change?

At heart we have a classical topic in philosophy, the subject of causality. As part of the Newtonian
world we have our own right to cause things in the same way that everything else in universe can
achieve if they operate in the Newtonian universe.

Of course, this does not mean that what we can cause will have an outcome we desire. But this goes
against the claim that the Newtonian world is governed by causality and determinism. If there are
determinism and causality and they do work, that is if an action of type A has the effect type B,
why is it that sometimes we do A but B does not happen?

Usually we put it down to the fact that we do not know enough about A or that in reality we did not
do what it takes to bring about B. Not to mention the idea that determinism and predicting the
future are in a way incompatible.

But what is a paradox or an issue in the Newtonian world, is quite normal in the quantum world. In
the quantum world we have things happening when they should not (tunnelling), we speak of the
probability of an event rather than the certainty of something happening, the possibility of a
quantum object existing over different space and time, and of course the dual state, of wave and
particle, a quantum object can have.

Basically, we just do not know whether things will change if we change. And worse, we also don't
know whether we can bring out the right outcome if we change. Of course, if we don't change it does
not follow that things will turn out the way we want them to turn out.

The bottom line is that sometimes we change, because we are changed, and sometimes we change because
we want to change others. However, if we're digging ourselves into a whole, and don't want to be
there, one of the things we can do is to stop digging.

Best Lawrence

In the meantime we have some news:
----from Miguel
ENCUENTROS DE PRIMAVERA EN EL PLANETARIO DE MADRID Mayo-Junio 2012
Les informamos que a partir del lunes 14 de mayo se podrá empezar a reservar invitaciones para la
conferencia "El Mecanismo de Antikythera, un planetario del siglo II a.C." perteneciente al ciclo
"Encuentros de primavera en el Planetario de Madrid".
Para más información sobre el ciclo de conferencias:
http://www.planetmad.es/PDFs/encuentrosposter-2012.pdf
Jueves, 31 de mayo a las 19 horas
"El Mecanismo de Antikythera, un planetario del siglo II a.C.". Conferencia a cargo de Toño Bernedo.
Planetario de Madrid

---- Cementerio Británico-----
Por el presente mensaje hago saber las fechas de las visitas comentadas programadas para mayo y
junio : si hay alguien que quiera formar un grupo, no importa que sea pequeño, en cualquier otra
fecha, sírvase avisarme para llegar a un acuerdo mutuo de hora y fecha.
This is to give you the dates of the guided visits on Saturday mornings in May and June : if anyone
wishes to make up a group, however small, independent of the dates I give below, I will be most
happy to make arrangements and take them round - all they need do is state their preferred dates and
we will work out a schedule.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Redacto el presente mensaje tanto en español como en inglés con el objeto de comunicarles que sigo
con el programa de visitas comentadas, sábados por la mañana, al Cementerio Británico.
Las visitas empiezan a las 11 horas en la entrada del Cementerio Británico, calle del Comandante
Fontanes 7, distrito de Carabanchel
*sábado, 26 de mayo, cuando daré las explicaciones en español
*sábado, 2 de junio, cuando daré las explicaciones en inglés
Lo dejo a su elección cuál día acuda y no hay necesidad de avisar.
Tomen nota de nuestra página web < www.britishcemeterymadrid.com > que contiene información de la
historia del Cementerio y el mapa de su ubicación.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am writing this in both Spanish and in English to tell you that I am continuing Saturday morning
guided visits to the British Cemetery.
We meet at 11 o'clock at the Cemetery entrance in Calle del Comandante Fontanes 7 in Carabanchel
* the visit on Saturday 26 May will be in Spanish
* the visit on Saturday 2 June will be in English
The choice of date is left to you and there is no need to inform me in advance of the visit whether
you are coming.
Do take note of our website < www.britishcemeterymadrid.com > where you will find details of the
Cemetery's history and a map with its location.
David Butler

-------end-------

take care
Lawrence



PhiloMadrid Meeting
Meet 6:30pm
Centro Segoviano
Alburquerque, 14
28010 Madrid
914457935
Metro: Bilbao

-----------Ignacio------------
Thursday's Open Tertulia in English
Important Notice: From December 1st, the Tertulia will take place at O'Donnells (ex-Moore's) Irish
Pub, c/ Barceló 1 (metro Tribunal)
http://sites.google.com/site/tertuliainenglishmadrid/

----------From Luisa---------
Please not you will have to let her know in advance if you wish to attend, thanks:
Data of language exchange,
Location: Café Comercial
Address: Glorieta de Bilbao, 7
Website location:
http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=es&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=glorieta+de+Bilbao+en+Madrid&fb=1&hq=glorieta+de+Bilbao&hnear=Madrid,+España&cid=168580715753984644



Dates: on Saturday
Time: from 12:30 to 14:45
Price: 2.50 € (exchange organizing, hiring the top of the cafeteria and coffee, tea, soda, wine or
beer are included).
Luisa - email to confirm please alvarez_luisa@hotmail.com
--------end----




from Lawrence, Sunday PhiloMadrid meeting: Do things change if we change? + news

from Lawrence, Pub Philosophy Group, Sunday meeting: Do things change if we change?

Dear friends,

This Sunday we are discussing a aptly introduced question for our times: Do things change if we change?

These rather interesting times are full of change: change is being imposed on us, some change we have been longing for to happen and some changes are as far away as we are from paradise. Having said that, change is possible. But I am afraid not enough for me to write a full essay, I only had time to string together a few ideas I feel are the basis of this theme.

Take care and see you Sunday,

Lawrence


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[Just a few ideas; could not find the time to write an essay. Sorry]

Do things change if we change?

This question is a good candidate for a hard or soft interpretation. It is, however, not a yes-or-no type of question, and when we put it through the soft interpretation grinder we have to rephrase the question.

The hard interpretation has a yes for an answer: if we change things do change. But this is rather an analytical truth if we accept the principles of causality and if we accept that we are also part of the causal chain of events. Of course, some might want us to believe that we are not part of any causal chain and that somehow we are different from the rest of the universe. Unfortunately, we are part of the mythical billiard table as much as the red and white balls; we are all subject to the principles of causality. But it is this catch-all causality that makes the question rather harmless, i.e. there is no yes-or-no type of answer to it. If we, therefore, accept the hard interpretation, the answer must surely be an analytical truth and it is not worth much to anyone.

To arrive at the soft interpretation, we have to rephrase the question, maybe into something like this: Do things change for the better if we try and change for the better? A bit of a mouthful, but basically, I am asking, whether our life will improve if we try to improve. It is also a difficult question to answer, because we are basically trying to predict the future. But not just predict the future, predict whether we can create a causal chain of physical events that will bring about what we want to be better. And, at the same time, and this is the joker in the pack, create a causal chain that will also make other people around us do things for us that will help us bring about what we want improved.

On the one hand, therefore, we want to change the physical world around us (have a bigger house, eat better food etc) and also change the behaviour of the people around us if not totally find new people to be part of our circle ( a better boss, a romantic girlfriend, a responsible child etc). But our life is akin to what Charles Dickens makes Mr Micawber say in David Copperfield, "if a man had twenty pounds a year, and spent nineteen pounds nineteen shillings and sixpence, he would be happy; but that a shilling spent the other way would make him wretched.” (Financial crisis: We should turn to Charles Dickens in hard times, not just Little Dorrit, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2008/10/21/bodickens121.xml, The Telegraph)

But we also know that to go from one level of equilibrium, if not disquiet, to a higher state, we need to spend more energy and therefore create more entropy.(Thermodynamics). Our happiness, or things changing to the better, means that others have to cooperate with us and this is a cost for them. Of course they might also profit from the deal, but, nevertheless, they have to do something for us in order that we achieve our better state of being. Finding the love of our life also means that that person must start loving us; working for a better boss means that the new boss must have a nice and friendly personality when dealing with us; getting more money for our property means that someone is willing to pay more than maybe what they initially wanted to.

I shall assume that changing other people to get them to help us become better is more difficult than say changing the topology of our plot of land to build our new bungalow. Changing people’s opinion or behaviour in order to help us takes us into the domain of communication: you will remember that communication is to manipulate others (R Dawkins). If we want to tell someone that we love them and that they ought to love us back, we have to communicate with them in such a way that they will indeed, love back and so on and so forth.

A very efficient way of doing this is, changing someone’s behaviour, would be to show them that what we are asking them to do is also rewarding for them. As I indicated in the previous paragraph, cooperating with us might also be profitable for the other person as much as it is for us, even if we accept that they have to do something for us. In other words, “why should they help us?” is a valid question to ask whether the other party is going to benefit from the deal or not.

Changing others so that they can help us achieve better things is only one small part of the programme. Two other issues that will certainly concern us are our believes and knowledge and what I shall call, doing what has to be done.

It is one thing to want to change our life, and believing that route X or route Y will take us there. But our state of knowledge and our believes play an important part in how we change, what we change into and whether things change to the better. Imagine believing that a prospective boss is interested in golf, but in fact he or she is interested in clay pigeon shooting. we are not going to change that person much by talking about golf. Many other factors can be influenced by what we know or believe in: we cannot change lead into gold, nor stop a fatal disease. Maybe people, in this respect are much easier to change: many studies have shown that most women prefer tall men to short men or that men prefer thin women, but as we know many women are happy with short men and many men are happy with a normal woman.

Believing the right thing and know the right sort of knowledge does not diminish the need for us to do what has to be done. Knowing that we have to be committed to someone we love is not enough since we need to do the right thing that would make our prospective partner love us back. And sometimes there is nothing that we (not anyone) can do to change their mind. The fact that many people are successful in doing what has to be done does not take away the complexity of the task.

To conclude, we are neither impotent to causing change nor immune to any change. The trick is to hit the red ball and save a six pence both at the same time.

Take care

Lawrence



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from Lawrence, Pub Philosophy Group, Sunday meeting: Do things change if we change?